Follow me on TwitterRSS Feeds
A new version of Chronicles is now live on Armor Games, and it includes a host of bug-fixes and improvements.
v1.1 – Premium Content version
Huge update, thanks Garin.
WHOAAAA! cleric’s revive also inflicts anoint to the revived unit! I definitely need to try that
good nerf to healing flash, no longer being able to heal the user. that skill was def OP (I will reiterate how OP it is. even after this update, flash heals for 719 while regular heal hits for 739. VERY powerful healing without a doubt). I doubt my confessor will suffer because rubicite breasplate+bolster defenses makes the guy nearly invincible, so he can live without being able to hflash himself… if necessary, my team will probably compensate by re-equipping the liturgy on the covenant of blood to my confessor (I was using liturgy on forgiveness of frailties instead; it gives higher +healing but no extra HP and it doesn’t give the heal-wielder-whenever-they-heal-someone effect)
Anyway some significant rebalances/adjustments, great update all around. Awesome stuff garin!
I have bought Premium Content but it not give me 5 Spark of Legend ( all other bonus is okay ), it likely cause because of after i bought it, maybe it actually give me 5 Spark of Legend, but the game is automatic syncing after Premium transaction is done, so it always ask that want to sync the offline save data to cloud or not, i choose that sync from offline save data.
So the problem is : after the purchase, it give 5x Spark of Legend to Online save data, but not offline save data, so when the purchase is done, it automatic logging in by that armor game data and if you choose that sync from offline save data right after that, you lost all the spark of legend
10 new characters ! What skills do they have ?
I don’t have premium, but I’m pretty sure it’s not new classes. it’s just a second copy of each existing class, so you can now have two of a class in your party instead of just one. I quote, “Create all-new party combinations with an extra character of each class”
that being said, I would definitely run a second confessor instead of inquisitor if I could
Correct, 10 new good looking sprites, but basically a copy of the excisting characters. So yeah @two confessers if thats what you need!
The new campaign bonusses are interesting though:
- Experience : 20% increase in exp.
- Reward: gold rewards are doubled
- Recovery: 25% health and power after each battle
The are also 3 new campaign rules:
- Fixed level: no monster lvl increase while doing the campaign
- True Hit: different way of calculating the hot percentage. (there was an extensive post in another thread somewhere about this)
- Lethality: monsters -25% health but +20% damage
Oh and plus 5 sparks of legend of course
Hot = hit of course.
And don’t forget, sparks now also give an extra enchantment slot, whoot!
All in all, nice update and a wonderful way of giving something back to Daniel.
Good : New characters !
Bad : Premium ?
After so many changes, got a desire to play it again but what why….10 new characters ? I know it’s the decision of Armor games, but still 10 characters? That’s a huge number….
Could you cut it down to 7, maybe 8, giving 2 or 3 new characters to those who have no money ?
Anyway, this patch is a nice one. I can see you almost respond to all complaints made by players (even those complaints made in Armor Game comment board. ).
But as you nerf the most powerful skill of Conferssor, would you buff the Inquisitor ?
So many typo in my post :
After so many changes, got a desire to play it again, but, why….10 new characters?
I know it’s the decision of Armor games, but still, 10 characters? That’s a huge number….
I can agree that inquisitor might benefit from a buff, esp if premium lets us play two confessor. Two confessor is MASSIVELY superior to confessor+inquisitor. Really the only reason I’m using inquis right now at all is because I can’t run two clerics otherwise lol. But the commentary I can offer here is probably best saved for another time since I already wrote a litany on the nature of rogues in the 1.02 update post. For now, all I will say is that retribution and litany of pain are pretty weak: retribution is strong but far too situational and expensive, while litany of pain is difficult to deal good damage with because it’s often not worth it to invest in intellect for the inquis. he’s not as good of a healer as the confessor so I prefer to invest in strength to boost weapon damage for fervor, and that leaves litany of pain as being virtually useless.
Retribution would be one of the best skills in this game if it can target ally, not just the inquisitor himself (of course with some drawbacks like Time Wrap so it won’t overshadow Purify)
took me a sec to understand you. You mean retribution transferring negative conditions from any ally of choice to an enemy, instead of just from the inquis to enemy right? That actually sounds pretty cool, although selecting the targets might be a bit complicated. perhaps pick the ally (with the option of picking yourself, ofc) and sprinkle the curses randomly across enemies? That way you don’t have to pick the enemy, you just have to pick the ally (which makes targeting simpler)
actually, if I think about it a bit more, this idea would still be really situational, but could be incredibly powerful (and the situational-ness prevents it from being broken). transferring a curse of mortality or terrify to the opponent would be groundbreaking. reduce the power cost to 25 or so and we could really have a monster on our hands. this would actually be able to get rid of energy flare lol
how did you change your picture
The inquisitor is actually very powerful, the litany of pain is the only reliable aoe spell other than lightning storm. And you can build a inquisitor has about 50% chance to stun…I am now trying to build a group of 2 inquisitors + 2 sorcerers with all intellect .
I always thought that a lot of Strength was the best way to get the most out of the Inquisitor and his Litany of Pain. With enough +Stun% and Judgement active you’ve got an AOE stun which deals damage. Stopping enemy actions via stunlock is kind of like healing right?
Strange thing – an enemy warrior used Shield Cover. I kicked them into the back row. Shield cover continued to function, and I couldn’t attack at all (melee only run) until the buff ended. Since I can’t use Shield Cover if in the back row, perhaps this should automatically end?
you need a hell of a lot of stun% to make reliable use of those effects though (judgment itself boosts stun%, but its curse doesn’t boost your stun%, it reduces enemy stun evasion), and radiance is absolutely essential for big battles in chronicles because characters have no natural health regen (where as in book of dread, units all recovered health naturally). judgment has occasional usefulness but I strongly prefer radiance because it turns my tough units into virtually invincible ones, and mass stun tends to be a hit-or-miss effort because stun is so timing dependent in chronicles. meanwhile litany of pain does SO little damage unless you have high INT, so the strength+ really doesn’t help much there. My main use for judgment is struggling for that last-minute stun that makes the difference between a single hit and a flawless win, and seeing as the typical stun% with judgment on is only about 25%, it’s not really something I can count on. Also note that litany of pain costs an incredible amount of power which is very difficult to justify unless it does good damage – most of the time I would rather use fervor to smash my way through some armored sap in the front row, heal himself (his healing is weak, but his current equipment is +500 to healing received, so it actually does work as long as he targets himself) or smite someone to push for that last little bit of damage that kills someone (inquis has weak smite as well as weak litany of pain, but at least smite does *something*. his smite is 245 and his litany of pain is 161).
overall litany of pain just doesn’t have any consistent use for the power cost. even with judgment on I’ll probably only score about one stun on average. If we look at the typical 4v4 battle in campaign I, two of the enemies are typically a fast moving acolyte or neophyte – the cleric moves too slowly to stun them before they take a turn, so I only benefit if I can stun one of the front two guys that sometimes the inquis can outspeed. I’m too lazy to do the combinatorics on those odds, but overall they aren’t very appealing. I would much rather smash stuff up with fervor if I had to use inquis, and that’s what I generally do with him. Fervor is probably the #1 benefit of inquis since it can greatly accelerate kills in the short term, and because he doesn’t use a heck of a lot of power anyway. But litany of pain doesn’t deal enough damage to compare in that regard.
I just purchased premium version and I never saw my 5 sparks of legend. I appreciate the changes and all, but I only did it to support the creator and get my sparks! How can this be fixed? Is it something in the syncing, or do I have to start over from scratch losing all of my item content to acquire the 5 sparks?
Firstly, thanks for your support. This is an issue that’s affecting some players, and rest assured I’m going to sort it out. You don’t need to start over.
What I will recommend is going to the main menu, logging out, then logging back in. The system is supposed to check during every login whether it still owes you sparks. This might still work.
I apologize for the inconvenience.. I did test thoroughly because I was really worried about a situation like this, but I suspect the security measure added at the last minute may have caused this problem. (They were also the source of the crashes in v1.1, annoyingly.)
I also bought the premium version, mainly to support you. But I also have a problem with the sparks. As you mentioned before the system checks if I already got the sparks. If not the system will give me 5 sparks. My problem is that after the system gave me the 5 sparks I have to leave and the sparks wasn`t saved to my local or online savegame.
You’re right, and I’ve found the problem. I will try to have a new version up tonight to prevent it happening in future, but I might need to re-imburse you early-adopters individually.
Sorry about this, and thanks for the support!
I should point out that it’s only happening in rare cases.
For anyone else considering a purchase: if you log into your Armor Games account *before* entering the premium content screen, it will work fine.
I tried logging out and relogging in etc. It didn’t give me the sparks, so I think I’ll try to wait for your fix. Test around it some more. Someone on AG also said to keep playing the act and it should give them to me as well. Sometimes, I’ll move on the map and even in battle it constantly tries to Sync but never finishes. Could possibly be my isp but I don’t know.
Same as me, when i bought premium content, i choose sync local save data right after that. Then after many tries of login in and out, it never give me 5x sparks.
Trulon, TrinhAnhDuc (and anyone else affected) – please let me know your Armor Games account names. Here is okay, or you can email me if you prefer at email@example.com
(slicplaya, I already have yours)
My Armor Games account name is Trulon. Thanks! Keep up the good work! Looking forward to more of monster’s den. I hope Monster’s Den: godfall is still on the list!
My Armor Games account names is TrinhAnhDuc , thanks for your support!
Let me start off by saying I enjoyed your game immensely, easily more than 50 hours put into it and time just keeps going up. However, I felt like the premium didnt deliver, I bought it anyway but I wish it had more stuff included, dont get me wrong extra characters, sparks, extra reward options are great but it just feels like there could be more introduced, perhaps new dungeon mode for your existing party, unique bosses, more elite/legendary sets that are obtainable through these new bosses. I wouldnt mind paying extra just to get a bit more you know. Anyways, I know the game is still fresh and new and you’re probably busy with Godfall so you cant commit as much time as possible but just know that you have alot of fans like me that are looking for “expansion” so to speak.
I understand, I hope you don’t feel I was dishonest about what was included though.
I tried to strike a balance between making the content seem useful, and having it feel like it was no longer a complete game without paying.
Originally I built Acts 4 and 5 to be part of the premium content, but I started to felt like that was too much to put behind a paywall, so I included them in the base game for free.
what happened to the never ending duegeons i loved them and they were the best part and you should have included new classes in the preimum game or atleast tell us that there copies of chars instead of making me flip out not knowing if im missing a HUGE chunk of the game and what the hell happened to the conjour SUMMONING THINGS he can only summon 2 now and its not fun and i wanted to see the origanal games bosses be revied
I’m having an issue purchasing premium content.
I click ‘buy now’ in the game, and another tab opens up. I click ‘set price’, and that takes me to a page where nothing else happens.
Yesterday when I tried there was a link to click at that point that popped up a paypal login window, but I couldn’t complete my purchase due to an issue on my end. Now that link has disappeared. I’m in v1.12.
Well, I tried it on Chrome it worked fine /shrug
i think it’d be better if there is a benefits for playing Hardcore mode and increased benefits for extreme difficulty.
honestly the changes in penalty hardly even matter; I’ve been playing on hardcore since I started the game and it’s never gotten me yet. It’s harder than it looks to get your entire party wiped out. For something that increases the challenge of the game by so little, I don’t think any increase is deserved. I agree on the difficulty factor though; currently the only reward is additional cash and veteran/extreme are quite legitimately challenging.
Personally I use Hardcore mode as the kindest option. You lose nothing if you die, and get to run through the campaign again, nothing like as punishing as it was in M.D.
definitely agree on this one. If you lose a campaign with exp or items as the setting, you actually lose something that you earned in the campaign, and in exchange you get to keep your progress in the dungeon of that campaign. In comparison, if you set it to hardcore, the only thing you lose is the dungeon progress itself .if you invested a lot of items into getting that far – potions and scrolls and what not – then perhaps that hurts. For example on my playthrough of extreme mode, before my party was as tough as it is now, I was playing hardcore ofc. I had spent like 20 quicksilver/protection elixirs/scrolls of deception but then I went into a battle without elixir-ing up and boom I lost. All those items spent in the progress I’d made, all gone to waste. Perhaps in a situation like that I would have preferred to lose some exp, but in general probably not.
That was odd, with arrival of 1.12 everything got erased, I kept my gear and levels but my achievement, gold, inventory, wiped clean. What could have caused this?
Purchased. I’m fairly happy with this content. Nothing earth-shattering, but I was never a fan of too much content being premium. If nothing else, the new characters will be fun to try some new builds on.
As for the skill balance, I’m glad you’re trying to fix Rogue. It’s the only class I could see no use for, other than going full-on Critical with the shards. This update gives him a little utility. I still likely won’t use him, but I’m certainly more enticed to give him a second chance. As far as Healing Flash goes, I’m sad that I won’t be using it as often now, but, yeah, it was really overpowered. The Spark of Legend update truly makes these items Legendary, now. Seems like they’re actually on the correct tier, and they don’t use a slot anymore? Gonna need one for each piece…
Still patiently waiting for more Legendary/Artifact items, and some super-bosses, like from The Book of Dread. Also, I’d be cool if some of these Campaign Modifiers made the game harder. All three of them seem to make things easier, and, to be honest, even Extreme was a bit too easy, after the proper set-up is made.
2nd the premium content comment. I didn’t feel forced to buy it, and I chose to anyway to tinker with new parties.
I need to know why It asks me to register everytime I try to log in. As you can see, I’m logged in now. But if I go straight to the game page I cannot use cloud saving because it says I’m not logged in. I try to log in, it asks me to register..Wash,rinse,repeat.
Found some issues/bugs. I have my inquisitor equipped with Skosyrite Codex which gives 25 power on a critical hit. I also have Hierarch’s ring on him which gives 15 power on critical hit. Now when I land a critical hit, I’m only getting 25 power. I thought it would stack, so I would get 25 + 15 = 40 power. Is it supposed to be non-stacking? Also, I landed a critical hit with Litany of Pain but I sometimes I get 0 power while other times I get 25 power. Thanks, and great job on this game!
i recall another comment like this from before. I don’t use items that trigger on crits so I can’t claim to have seen any of this behavior, but it seems to be those particular triggers that are the problem
Yeah. MoD chronicle’s hardcore mode doesn’t really feel like hardcore mode because it saves all the items and achievements. Why not make hardcore mode = lose everything (lv, item, achievements, etc) when die, but give good ‘extra’ benefits when they play hardcore mode?
it’s reply to #31.
Thought I’d give a few, subjective, observations of the classes now I’ve had a few days to get into it. Skills are divided into Gold, Silver and Bronze Quality. If people think I’m using the class wrong, or missing the value of a skill, feel free to say.
Adrenaline: Stun immunity is awesome, damage bonus is awesome. Adrenaline is awesome.
Hold the Line: Unlike Guard, this gives the damage reduction to where it’s actually needed, and heals to boot. Great stuff.
Push Harder: 40 Power can mean the world when given to the right target, and 20% of
maximum health is pretty easily healed overall. Also goes well with the Inquisitor, letting him use Retribution more effectively. Giving bonuses on top of that making sure the target you just super charged isn’t going to get hit by a cheap stun is delicious gravy.
Cleave: Any AOE is arguably a gold standard ability, considering its action economy. Cleave is probably the least valuable AOE considering that it’s the only one where the users positioning is a factor, but it’s still good in a pinch.
Power Attack: Vanilla attack ability, it’s still a great skill, but not much for problem solving.
Guard: It may just be me, but my back line tends to take dramatically less damage than my front line anyway. This will be even less cool when the game stops letting you have it as your default style *in* the back row.
Resolve: In the absence of a cleric, this is a decent ability for an endurance focused warrior, but not in the same league as other healing abilities.
Kick: Almost silver, but there are so many enemies that are just as bad in the back row that this is rarely viable.
Overall: The biggest problem for warriors is their Multiple Attribute Dependency. If they focus on Strength to get the most of their attack skills, they have trouble surviving heavy hits on higher difficulties. If they focus on Intelligence for getting the best out of Hold the Line, they have no damage output. If they focus on Endurance then they’ll just sit there and eat the hits without offering much to the combat outside of being a damage sponge.
Personally I like this, since it means Warriors have a lot of diversity, but it’s worth noting that they suffer the most from spreading out their abilities.
Sweeping Strikes: +Quickness? Awesome. +Accuracy? Awesome. But the real kicker is ignoring enemy evasion, making the Champion surprisingly effective at taking out some of the most annoying targets.
Shield Wall: The quintessential tanking skill, combined with the correct support (thorns, nature’s balm, Push Harder, and/or Hold the Line) this can be devastatingly effective.
Bloodlust: Long-lasting power regenation and a skill power cost reduction if he manages to kill something is decent, but that does leave a full turn where the Champion isn’t holding the line, shield-walling, pushing harder or cleaving. Situationally pretty useful though, especially since Sweeping Strikes can guarantee a kill shot quite easily.
Charge: 140% damage is great, but an actual ability to fight at range is what makes this skill good. Unfortunately it’s highly conditional otherwise I’d consider it a gold skill.
Overall: The Champion is the less MAD of the two sub-classes and has the most versatility in his skills. It’s a toss-up between Strength and Endurance as to where his abilities need to go, since only Hold The Line depends on intellect.
Shrug It Off: A targettable, slightly more powerful Resolve. Hold the Line is the same price, an AOE, and gives 20% damage reduction.
Change Formation: Rarely comes up. It’s not a bad skill and can sometimes save the day, it’s just too infrequently useful to be great.
Keep Up: If your Warrior is so weak that half a turn of another character is more valuable than a full one of his, I’m not sure what’s going on, but situationally giving an ability to your Assassin for a CDG might be good.
Inspiration: Maybe it’s me, but I always have someone who’s better suited to being in the centre of my ‘T’ formation than the Captain, like a cleric. If it lasted longer, it might be silver, but 15% for a single turn that only applies when the warrior isn’t doing anything more important (like holding the line) is questionably worthwhile, even if I do get to apply it to all three party members.
Overall: Honestly I’d say the best place for the champion was with a spear in the back row. Then you can focus on intellect and strength without worrying about his staying power. Once you don’t have to worry about him keeling over in a few hits, you can work on his gear to get him into something lighter and faster and maybe get something worthwhile out of his decent basic skills, he certainly doesn’t cut it very well as a front-liner.
Radiance: +10 Evasion AND a free HoT on everyone next to him? This is why people play with clerics.
Judgement: 20% stun is nice, as is +25% Skill Power cost and penalties to recovering, and avoiding, stun. But unless you were trying to set up a CDG against a stun resistant target, I don’t see you dropping the Radiance, just because more health is always good.
Heal: Just because it’s basic doesn’t mean it’s not great. Poison and Wounds are common and unpleasant.
Resurrect: It’s a resurrection spell. It has to be Gold. Getting a free anoint out of the deal is just gravy.
Holy Light: AOE 30% blind is almost dropping enemies’ damage by 30%. Too bad it doesn’t still damage undead.
Smite: It always hits, which is awesome for cherry tapping an almost dead enemy, but it’s unlikely to deal much damage, especially since it lost the double damage feature from MD 1.
Anoint: If you’re wasting time anointing, it means you’re either setting up someone else’s AOE or your cleric doesn’t have enough to do.
Purify: Decent, but situationally so.
Overall: Clerics have a great base chassis and aren’t even that bad for damage anymore with great hammers, though their weapon choice is limitted and does hurt them in the long run.
Zeal: This doesn’t really compare with the basic cleric styles unfortunately, unless you wanted to go for a light armoured combat cleric going for maximum damage in the shortest time I suppose.
Fervor: Power Attack on ‘roids, with a two-handed hammer this does more single target damage than most other skills in the game.
Litany of Pain: Others surely disagree, but this combined with Judgement is a single attack with at least 20% chance of stunning, with a penalty to their recovery from said stun, and it attaches a 25% power cost increase onto all their skills. This is on top of a small amount of damage and any weapon-procs.
Retribution: This is an amazing skill, but situational. If used right, it’s a Cleric-based Electrocute, potentially with debuffs attached, and it’s combined with the Inquisitor’s max health, so it will scale naturally. On the downside, it doesn’t actually heal the Inquisitor of the damage portion, so it depends on leaving him quite vulnerable to get the most out of it.
Overall: Inquisitors are awesome, but shouldn’t be depended on as an AOE class. Focusing on strength will get the best out of their attack skills, and just shove them out in front to mace some face.
Benediction: Immunity to everything, plus the ability to turn “healing flash” into Purify? Clerics get the best stuff.
Healing Flash: There seems to be a quirk here, where the target is losing 1/2 their action, rather than a quarter, but this is still an amazingly useful skill, for obvious reasons.
Heal All: Another awesome, awesome skill.
Intercession: Instant healing is a great emergency heal, but slightly more situational than their other healing goodies.
Overall: No brainer, go for the intellect and maximise their healing bonus. AOE healing and half-turn healing are just that good. Bring someone who can actually hurt their enemies though.
Spell Mastery: A base 100% Accuracy and a 20% chance of a free skill is all you need.
Fireball: A great AOE, combined with guaranteed hit on the primary target.
Electrocute: Never misses plus great single target damage. Excellent skill.
Magic Missile: Armour piercing, half-time cherry tap skill. It’s slightly more mana intensive than electrocute, but it deals *significantly* more damage in the same time window thanks to the debuff effect, and gives twice the number of chances for on-damage effects to proc. The worst downside is that it’s not an automatic hit. Electrocute’s a better bet if you can kill an enemy with it before they move though.
Freeze: A decent skill with a decent multiplier, but it pales before Electrocute and Missiles most of the time.
Power Siphon: It has situational uses, but it’s usually better to use the mana for actually hurting people. Two mages working together could potentially make this silver through Power Denial though.
Channelling: You attack faster, but have no Power to attack with. Arguably valuable as a default skill to get to your first turn faster, but power is too important to cripple yourself with not having any.
Summon Shadow: Summon a helper who does less damage: Okay, neat. Who has 1 HP: Uhhh…. Who deals damage to the caster when he dies? Too many characters have retaliation for this to not suck. Maybe if it had 25% the mage’s HP or so it might be worth using. Rarely.
It’s hard to go wrong with such a good basic chassis, mages are definitely the best damage dealers.
Incinerate: Their most damaging skill, and the same cost as Magic Missiles, this is gold standard, despite the range limitation.
Cold Front: Reducing action is always great, even though targetting the AOE gets a little dodgy sometimes.
Lightning Storm: The measure by which all other AOEs are based.
Empowered: 20% damage when you need it is great, but a 10 power cost to standard attack is less great. Empowered is a sometimes food.
Overall: Sorcerors are probably the best pure damage dealing class, especially in AOE. Slap on Intelligence.
Time Warp: If you’re in a combat team with other characters slightly faster than the conjurer, this is simply amazing. Your whole team can attack, then the Conjurer Time Warps, then attacks himself (or just recovers his power all back with Siphon), then your entire team gets to attack *again* before your enemies get a turn.
Summon War Golem: This is why Mage beats Warrior. Mages can *summon* warriors. Disposable meatshields with decent attacks, these things rock.
Disintegrate: One of two instant kills, this one is arguably the weaker of the two (given how easy it is to set up a CDG) but more than makes up for it by being cheap, never missing, and stopping revival. It doesn’t even need intellect, but I don’t know why you’d skimp on Intellect anyway.
Arcane Armour: Damage Protection is neat, and arcane resistance spoils a lot of annoying enemies’ favourite tricks, but most of the time the conjurer probably shouldn’t be getting hit.
Overall: Yet again, just add intellect and watch these arcane beasts win the day with their basic skills, then make sure it stays won with their advanced skills.
Sneak Attack: For the Assassin, this is great, giving him a versatile ranged capability without the missile damage type. For the Thief, he should probably be using a bow anyway.
Elusive: The evasion bonus is great, but one wonders why, at least thematically, Sneak Assault, Hide and Shadow Jump aren’t getting bonuses along with Sneak Attack. Unfortunately the enemies you really want to avoid getting by are often bosses, for whom an extra 20% off their 130% chance to hit is rather uninspiring.
Poisoncraft: Mediocre, but free, so long as the rogue is working at melee or using a bow. With sneak attack, it’s basically a 15 Energy increase to deal a comparatively small amount of damage. At level 10, maxing Intellect rather than Dexterity made a difference of 6 damage over the full duration, so not exactly worth building around.
Pierce Defenses: This is a decent, but situational move, it’s not cheap, so it’s usually cheaper to just use regular attacks.
Hide: The rogue skips a turn and avoids non-AOE damage. Alright for emergencies to save needing a revive, but for regular combat, unless it’s an Assassin prepping for an Assault, you’re not saving much power compared to attacking twice, and by hiding, unless your attack is 100% accuracy, you’ll mathematically do more damage by just attacking twice. Plus you concentrate damage from four down to three characters, which is rarely worth it.
Flash Powder: Even at half-time cost, this is rarely worth using. 40 power for one round of lowered accuracy just isn’t worth it. Compare this with the Cleric’s AOE Holy Light, which lasts longer, has additional bonuses, and effects *everybody*.
Sap: Half damage for 40 power cost? It’s melee only, so anything that can be hit with it will still have the ability to keep on hitting.
Cripple: Another half damage attack with a tiny duration quickness debuff? Why does this even exist?
Overall: I’m not overly sure what role the rogue is supposed to have. They have no means of healing, no means of cheaply boosting their accuracy through styles, no means of boosting their damage through styles, and their debuff attacks are all low damage, low duration and not even that debilitating. They’re almost entirely dependent on their secondary class skills to define how they play.
Opportunist: A great style, this effectively makes the Rogue’s attack cost less when he can get a kill shot. Since all three of the thief’s skills are half-skills, activating opportunist and using one of them is basically getting the skill for free.
Shadow Jump: This skill is almost the only reason to bring a thief along. Cheap, expendable, attention grabbing tanks which don’t stop you from getting a flawless when they get killed? Awesome.
Even the Odds: Conditional, but cheap and potentially very useful if the boss happens to have the high ground.
Thief’s Luck: Again, conditional, but one of the only ways to boost accuracy and nicely long lasting.
Overall: Since the Thief’s damage is actually pretty low, and he’s got nothing to deal with multiple targets, heal, or much else, he’s not that good as much beyond sending in the shadowclones.
Since Intelligence is virtually useless for the Thief, maxing dexterity and using a bow is advised to maximise Opportunist’s value and save energy, since he’ll probably end up on the back row eventually.
Sneak Assault: Most of the dangerous/annoying but low HP enemies in the game seem to chill out at the back row. Being able to AOE these targets at 100% weapons damage is awesome, and one of the only times when hiding *might* be worth it.
Coup de Grace: This ability on its own is Silver or Bronze, depending on your team’s set up. With a Ranger in your team however, this is unarguably one of the best skills in the game – reliable, single target termination.
Lethality: Whilst powerful, this becomes substantially less valuable when you bear in mind that, unlike every other Style in the game, this has no effect whatsoever 84% of the time. Nice in theory, but unless the target is already suffering from Poisoncraft, then it’s not worth it otherwise. As more +crit% gear becomes available however, this does become gold eventually.
Insidious Poison: This would be silver, but since poison resistance is actually rather common, and the damage it deals is delayed by a full turn, this loses a lot of its value.
Overall: Though still hampered by the Rogue core chassis, the Assassin pulls it off as a damage dealer purely on the back of Sneak Assault and Coup de Grace. Again, intelligence still isn’t worth it in favour of dexterity, but there’s a real choice for Assassins between Bows for ranged instant kills or Daggers to get that lovely back row AOE.
Healing Lore: A huge bonus to healing skills that makes them give clerics a run for their money, coupled with sizeable health regen, for free? Give a ranger this and they’re safer in the front row than a rogue is.
Marksman: Whenever the Ranger isn’t tanking they can get a huge accuracy bonus and 10% more damage. Awesome, though the quickness penalty is unpleasant.
Pierce: Not the greatest of AOE skills, 90% to two targets is still nothing to be sneezed at, and comes up quite frequently against a number of formations.
Nature’s Balm: Great healing, cures poison, makes the target immune to poison for the duration, and is the cheapest targetted heal with Healing Lore active. The only thing it lacks is an up front heal to keep the target going, and the fact that Healing Skills bonuses don’t seem to improve it.
Pin: Guaranteed stun, with damage. Somewhere, an inquisitor is crying tears of bitter envy.
Envenomed Arrow: Ranged attack with a longer duration poison than the Rogue’s poison and since the Ranger benefits from intellect on heals, more likely to get boosted to boot. The poison also benefits from intellect faster than Rogue’s poison, so it does more damage.
Herbal Remedy: A decent single target heal that cures wounds. Since Healing Lore can be applied instantly, and isn’t intellect dependent, even Dex-focused rangers can heal quite a bit with this in an emergency.
Swiftness: It’s less conditional than Keep Up, and only a half action for a six second boost. It’s unlikely that the Ranger doesn’t have something better to do though.
The core chassis of the Ranger is amazing. Either go with dexterity or intellect and you’ll see some seriously awesome results. The only downside is the fact that they’re exclusively Missile users, which can give some grief against skeletal warriors and the like.
Hail of Arrows: This is arguably one of the strike all weakest AOEs, but it’s still a Strike All AOE. With Eagle Eye and Marksman active it’s quite a nasty damager, but really only worthwhile against five or six targets.
Eagle Eye: A sizeable damage boost which works great with either of the Marksman’s AOEs. It would be silver except it’s free, fast, and even boosts power recovery.
Hunter’s Focus: 100% resist mental is neat, as is the power saving/recovery, but really you’re better off sticking with one of the core styles, they’re just so good.
Point Blank: Automatically hits, deals decent damage, reduces the target’s current action and has a boosted crit rate? Rogues *wish* that this was how Flash Powder worked. For the ranger though, it’s still a missile based attack without the benefit of being a missile. Not bad, but not amazing, at least for a ranger.
Overall: The Marksman is surprisingly well suited to being in the front line with everybody else. It’s not as valuable for him to have a good Int score as it is for the Warden, so you might as well load up the Dexterity for his bow damage and use his healing for emergencies.
Force of Nature: Removes buffs, Gives Armour Piercing, big bonus to all resistances, and 25% magical protection? Rangers seriously get the best stuff.
Second Wind: The only other Revive in the game, and it’s seriously giving the Clerics a run for their money. With maxed intellect, this can turn a dead party member into a nearly fully healed party member by the time an enemy actually gets a turn to attack them. Give me a living ally to a dead anointed one any day.
Thorns: This is a situational, but neat, skill. Combined with Shield Wall (and followed by Nature’s Balm) you’ve basically given your Champion an offensive role just by standing there. Without the guarantee that the Champion gives you, this skill is rarely so valuable or reliable, but at least it’s cheap, and it lasts a long time.
Snare: If this skill stunned the attacker and stopped the attack from actually connecting in the first place, it would be golden, but as it is, an awkward targetting method and a short duration mean this is another Champion-supporting skill but without the duration. Has some potential for CDG teams, but really, why wouldn’t you just use Pin?
Overall: The Warden is an incredible healing/damage hybrid, and unlike the Cleric it doesn’t get that much worse off for specialising in healing, thanks to the power of Envenomed Arrow. Go for Intellect, avoid undead, and team up with an Assassin for even more fun. A two-man Warden/Assassin team is an awesome combination.
when i started reading I was sure i’d have some complaints about this ranking. but I’m surprised to say that, for the vast majority, I actually agree. warden is definitely the best class and thief is definitely the worst. The only thing I completely disagree on is litany of pain because my inquis typically kills people way faster with macewhacks and the occasional fervor than by wasting his mana on a litany of pain that deals 150 damage (as opposed to a melee attack that’s in the 3-400s, or a fervor that rips things apart for 700+).
As someone mentioned on another page, the best two person combination by far is warden+conjuror. If you’re going for dynamic duo or terrible trio, this combo is THE way to do it. wargolems make it so their low armor is a non-issue because the golems can tank it up, and warden has all the support skills – healing, revives – plus high damage output. Putting thorns on wargolems is also hilarious because thorns actually has pretty solid retaliation damage
Keep up is situational, but it can be extremely valuable during certain battles. for example, the cult ascendant battle at the end of campaign 1 has 2 ascendants + 1 or 2 planesworns. That’s a LOT of revivers so I really want to eliminate the bodies. The load on my conjuror to disintegrate enemies is extremely high because disintegrate takes a full turn (which it should, not complaining here). Basically during those battles my ranger’s job is to knock people down to 30% and every turn my conjuror has to disintegrate someone or wait (i’d rather keep a half action from waiting, than spend a full action and regret it when I need a disintegrate quickly). Keeping up in battles like these is quite nice. In addition I find that since warriors are always standing in the front row, endurance >> strength. So their damage output is okay but still not as good as a mage or ranger.
Push Harder is a deceptively useful skill since some classes (ranger in short battles, mage in long ones) burn through mana really fast and health is a non-issue for them (they’re both backrow and if playing warden, his regen is often really solid without item support). Purify is another one that falls into this “unexpectedly useful” category because there are few skills that can dispel curse-type conditions quickly, and if you lack a captain (shrug it off) it’s also tough to dispel mental conditions. Sadly almost nothing dispels arcane lol. freaking energy flare. Resolve is also a monster if you spec your warrior well. +healing received is absolutely preposterous with resolve, and even better, resolve grows with END. As someone else mentioned, you can actually survive without a cleric if you have a solid high-armor warrior with a bit of natural regen and a strong resolve. Definitely a kickass skill just that the equipment to make it good can sometimes be a challenge to find.
” You can actually survive without a cleric if you have a solid high-armor warrior with a bit of natural regen and a strong resolve ”
+1 on this. And you can even win a battle with only one Warrior, at least on beginner’s level. Not kidding, all you need are endurance, retaliation damage and health regeneration. Using Resolve or Hold the Lind, the enemies will kill themselves faster than you would imagine.
Sorry, but i disagree with thief being the worst class. If you invest in theif, and i mean really invest. with some of those 100k quickness bottles. Using opportunist and daggers(including off hand dagger with lots of damage) He can kill almost anyone before they make they’re first move. Battles will end faster from him alone. You dont even need to pump him up with 100k bottles. normal potion of quickness is plenty. And i’m talking on extreme mode of course. Cripple is a great skill. it can slow an enemy down enough to for everyone to have a hit. or just delay the damage output of that mob. although i haven’t really needed to use it anymore now that he just kills before they can attack. He’s up front all the time. with assasin next to him. And he’s just a tyrant.. 1 hit kills, without coup de grace. and warden in back for heals, and ranger in the back for giggles. fastest runs ever.
This may be a personal thing, but I do dislike the idea that stats *lose* value as you gain in level. If I invest completely in Dexterity, and reach 100% accuracy, then putting points into Strength or Intellect for even one level means now I only have 99% accuracy.
I appreciate the concept of an “arms race”, but this loss of accuracy is based on the character’s own level, not his enemies, so he’s actually getting less competent as he advances unless he devotes everything (including ever-scaling equipment) to a single stat.
This doesn’t make for a healthy game system or a rewarding one for those who like to see their characters getting better.
Perhaps a better way for future entries would be to externalise the arm’s race, have enemies become more resistant to stun, have them gain evasion, have strength lower stun resistance slightly as well as cause stun. Have higher level attacks reduce damage reduction by more and more, so eventually the player *needs* over 100% D.P to fight against monsters their level, have them reduce resistances.
Internally, make stats increase a set amount of health/power after battle, rather than a percentage, the only thing that would arguably need a cap is Free Skill.
In short, make enemies better, without making the player worse. If the player then walks in with their level 99 Inquisitor to power level their level 1 buddy, let the player enjoy their feeling of immortality as level 50 enemies barely even scratch their armour and miss them half the time.
Naked level 17 after a slate.
5 Power Regen.
1% Critical hit rate.
150% critical hit damage.
60 Stun Recovery.
After 17 levels of Dex:
Nothing else is different, so the effect of a full seventeen levels is a 3% evade/accuracy boost? Damage and health scale, everything else can, and should, too.
evade and accuracy percentages should not scale aggressively, otherwise they become far too powerful. Currently as I understand it, the scaling multiplier goes up with level, so that it requires more of a given stat to reach a certain point than it did at a lower level. This is absolutely essential to maintaining the balance of the game. If my level 80 characters were able to enjoy non-scaling benefits, my ranger would easily have 30% natural evasion by now and that’s ridiculous. I think it’s crucial that equipment is the defining factor in how your side percentages scale up – that is, the stat bonus you get from leveling up is only enough to maintain your current level of skill in things like evade%, and if you want to get MORE, you need to find equipment that helps you. I’m fine with things like health and weapon damage going up fast because the enemies are also gaining these things as they level up. But evade% and accuracy% are two examples of things that our enemies are NOT gaining as they grow. We now have two choices here:
1) either, for the most part, prevent the characters’ evade% and accuracy% from growing over levels either. This suppresses character growth but avoids serious issues of game balance
2) allow the enemies’ evade/accuracy to scale with their level more aggressively, and let the characters do the same
The problem with #2 is that although it looks fine at low levels, it becomes a crapshoot at high ones. At level 80, basically every unit in the game is going to be packing 30% evasion or more. At that point victory has more to do with whether or not you can connect on a crucial attack than whether or not you have intelligent tactical planning. Strength-based units gain no bonuses to accuracy as they level so they’re effectively rendered worthless at high levels, because either you invest in strength (you have no dex, none of their attacks can hit) or you invest in dex (you have no strength, their attacks do pitiful amounts of damage). Skills that never miss become extremely powerful because your hit chances are plummeting. Indeed this is a slipperly slope but it is also an inevitable one because MD currently has no level limit. Therefore I stand by the current implementation of the game: if a monster has stats that scale aggressively with its level, let the character do the same, but if a monster has stats that do not scale aggressively with level, let the character suffer the same. Eliminating this limitation only exacerbates the arms race that you describe because now we’re all going to be running around with 25+ evasion and dexterity is going to be the only stat that matters.
Again I think too much is being read into the flavor in this argument. The damage protection percentages and what not that are being displayed should be interpreted as those relative to the character’s level; ie a level 40 character with 45% armor is packing 45% relative to other level 40 units, and a level 80 character with 45% armor is packing 45% relative to other level 80 units. Inevitably this abstraction leaks when we send out the level 40 character against level 5 characters and find out that his 45% armor is only 45% against them as well, but their damage output is so low compared to his level 40 HP that it doesn’t even matter! I would rather the abstractions of non-scaling percentages fail in this way, than have them skyrocket as levels go up, because eventually something is going to get out of hand (and evasion is a perfect example of what WILL get out of hand).
Yes, I’d consider the ideal system to be one where the characters and enemies both improve, so lets expand on your #2:
The easiest way to implement such a system is simply to cap the difference between Accuracy and Evasion (Base to Hit) before applying modifiers from Accuracy buffs/debuffs. Let’s start this at 50%/100% minimum/maximum chance before any in-combat buffs.
Assuming 4 Dex = 1 Accuracy/1 Evade (though given the fact that maximum investment is 3% over normal it would probably advance slower than this) then this would work out at roughly:
Level 1: 95% (base accuracy),
Level 3: Dex specialists now have a 94% to hit them from enemies with no dex, and a 96% chance of hitting that enemy, or 95% versus each other.
Level 4: No-dexers catch up, it’s back to a net 95%/95% (96 accuracy/1 evade each).
Level 8: Dexers have 15 Dexterity for 98/3, No-dexers have 8 dexterity for 97/2 – 96% chance to hit a no-dexer still, 94% to hit a Dexer.
Level 10: Dexers have 19 Dexterity for 99/4. No-dexers still have 97/2, so they’re down to 93%.
Level 20: Dexers have 59 dexterity for 109/14. No-dexers have 100/5, so a dedicated Dexer has a base 100% chance to hit them, a no-dexer has a 86% chance to hit them in return.
Level 40: Dexer has 139 dex, for 129/34. No-dexers are now at 105/10, so 71% chance of hitting.
Level 80: 169/74. No-dexers are at 115/20. They’ve been at a 50% base chance to hit for several levels now.
At a certain point, the Dex-specialist gets as much of a bonus as they’re going to get against a character with no dexterity at all, and if that character gets a +25% accuracy bonus, they’re up to 75% chance to hit again, If the Dex-specialist gets a -25% accuracy penalty, they’re down to 75% chance to hit as well.
From here there’s the question of “how many of the other enemies in the game does the character want to have 50% dodge chance against?”
If a character goes 1 dex every three levels, then at 80 they’ll have ~72 Dex more than a no-dex character. 152 Dex = 133 accuracy, or 59% against the dexer. At 1 Dex every other level, they have a 68% chance to hit against the Dexer. A 2/3 Dex has a 77% chance to hit a pure dex character, and a 59% chance of getting hit by a no-dexer.
Even if a Dexer calculated the exact ratio to keep at the magic 50% rate towards no-dex opponents, they’d have an entire spectrum of characters with varying amounts of dexterity to contend with.
I’d suggest that the major change would be that dexterity builds didn’t invest as much in +accuracy/evade gear as non-dexterity builds, since a +5% accuracy bonus on a weapon would account for 20 levels worth of dexterity.
The key to stopping god stats is to make each one attractive to invest in, without letting hyper-specialisation break the game, so a pure strength specialist gets what in return?
They get a capped 50% base chance of stunning their target before skill bonuses (4:1 for 1% of stun chance and a -1% to their opponent’s Stun Resist% as well as 1% to their own stun resist). So if they hit a dexer, there’s a 25% chance that the dexer will be hit and stunned. Worth it? In my opinion it’s a fairly viable option.
Pure Endurance? 1% of Resists/Damage Protection per 4, along with an HP bonus – so pure Endurance is 299 at 80 would give a maximum 50% damage reduction plus 50% against resists and some bonus HP as recompense for not boosting damaging abilities.
Intelligence? Tough one, considering it’s currently just tied with free skills, which is a harder thing to scale overall, but something like ignoring 4:1 of Armour Protection and, I suppose, ignore 4:1% of non-stun Resists (which would keep the theme – armour would continue being part of the arms race by being impacted by enemy stats).
So to hit the extremes a Dexer would have a 50% chance of getting hit by another character.
A Strength specialist would have a 50% chance of stunning another character.
An Endurance specialist would have a lot more health and resist most things that could get thrown at it.
An Intellectual would ignore up to half a target’s armour with its hits, and be better at inflicting statuses on its opponent.
Mixing them together equally would give a few % better dodge chance, ignore a few % of D.P, causing Stun some of the time…. It wouldn’t necessarily work against enemies specialised against it, but there would be infinite variety rather than archetypes differentiated by 3% in a secondary stat. This would complexify strategy, but not remove tactics.
Then bring in basic abilities with flat bonuses that modify these base stats – Flash Powder, Magic Missiles, Point Blank’s never-missing, Judgement’s flat +20% chance of stunning and -25% to stun resist, these bonuses, and which targets to use them against, would become even more important.
Flavour? Yes, it’s flavourful that a dextrous archer is harder to hit, whilst an indomitable warrior barely feels the blow, whilst a cunning mage bypasses their armour and a brutal berserker knocks them all for a loop, but this is all about the crunch, characters should be equally viable at higher levels because investing in different stats should give benefits that are worthwhile in comparison to the increasing damage. The fact this also helps verisimilitude against higher and lower level enemies is great (and might open the way for mixed level environments or team-versus team more easily) is just a nice bonus on top of getting a more robust system in the end.
The thing is that with your system, I still have no reason to invest in a ranger’s strength when his dex is the only thing that boosts his damage. Damage continues to be king no matter what you do, so enhancing the side benefits of the stats doesn’t affect the stat build. There is no way to mix stats efficiently in MD and frankly no such build will ever be as straight up effective as one that maximizes its damage output, unless you let the side benefits scale exceptionally fast in which case they’re overpowered. I don’t see how going for +1% evade or +1% stun is going to benefit me over getting more damage on the table. The only way those benefits are worth anything is if I accumulate them by investing heavily in a stat, which is not worthwhile for a stat that doesn’t improve damage.
Your suggestion of caps effectively does the same thing as what’s being done right now – prevents the system from going out of control – except it reduces restrictions on the values while doing so. I don’t want an archer that has only a 75% chance of being hit! That’s TOO GOOD. Way too good. 50% is just completely out of the question. That eliminates battle tactics because now my baseline stats are good enough that I can do what the monsters do – throw random attacks at my enemies until someone dies. Why do you think the ghoul has so much natural evasion? it’s because the rest of its stats are paper. If you put that much evasion on a ranger, not only will he have that much evasion, but he also has high damage output from the +dex, he probably has more HP and more regen because of his gear, and he has the support of a human intelligence controlling him. The balance between player and enemy goes out the window.
Ultimately the problem is that your means of balancing this system is to promote generalization of stats. You correctly recognize that if the system scales so aggressively, then any pure stat build has the ability to threaten a serious and thoroughly unfair advantage. But that doesn’t mean that I gain anything by making an inferior investment in the same stat as the pure build, so I can struggle to keep up. That’s a losing game. Generalized builds are
1) impossible in MD because you can’t spread the stats effectively within a single level up. It’s either +3 to one, or +3 to another one. There’s no +1 to one stat and simultaneous +2 to another
2) ultimately useless to the character. Even if you could spread stats, a percentage point here or there of some random chance effect is never going to compare to more damage. You have to concentrate percentages to get a worthwhile benefit and that requires concentrating stat points – which goes exactly against the balancing you want to promote with your enhanced stat benefits.
3) too easily abused. Even if damage was not the end all of a battle, why would I waste my time taking a 10% bonus to each of these chance-based factors when I could instead nab a 50% bonus to just one of them? The probabilistic benefits to the latter are superior to the former since I can actually be reasonably confident in the latter taking place during a battle. But that once again promotes concentration of stats. If you eliminate MD’s current slow-scaling system and replace it with a fast-scaling system that caps, then any pure stat build concentrated in one stat and one stat alone will hit that cap quite quickly. I’m at level 80 right now so I can pretty much assure you that if there are caps, my units have hit them and have been there for a while. If you nerf the scaling factors to prevent this from being a problem, then now there’s no good reason to mix stats because I gain basically nothing from a small investment, so I might as well continue to invest in a single stat like I did before! But if you enhance the scaling factors, I gain so much from a pure stat that the other stats don’t even have to matter! At that point the only thing that differentiates stats is the number of benefits they have, and once again, damage keeps coming out on top. If you enhance the side bonuses of a stat, you only give me even more reason to specialize in that stat and that stat alone, which further pushes units to the extremes of their roles and prevents them from reliably taking on the roles in between. If my warrior can invest in a dex point every few levels to try and score a 65% hit rate on a high-dex character, I’m not even going to waste the time and points. 65%? For one point every few levels? That percentage is worthless. Just look at all the competitive pokemon players who rage about stone edge missing on its 80% accuracy and you’re going to convince me that 65% is even vaguely acceptable? (Note: I’m not getting angry here. on pure math, 65% is not an acceptable hit rate) Just give the guy more armor so I can ignore the high-dex character’s damage output altogether, because I’m not going to score consistent hits no matter what I do unless I go into a pure dex build to keep up (an option that is not viable for a warrior because its damage doesn’t scale with dex).
The problem is that any buff to any scaling factor on any side benefit of any stat will only increase the specialization further, which further prevents mixed builds from being viable and promotes dangerous levels of power creep. 50% accuracy against a high dex character is not acceptable at all. 50% chance to stun is not acceptable either. That’s overpowered in every sense of the word: consistent (ie you can reliably count on being able to dodge/stun without having to make any in-battle investment), difficult to counter (the only way to prevent these things from being a serious problem for you is to match those investments by going into a pure build of your own – the only counter is to do the same thing) and with powerful payoff.
Since the more replies the more squished (and elongated) the post, I’ll reply to myself on the subject for a wider read.
Anyway, I believe that you may be considering the numbers I’ve provided as examples as more than they were intended to be. Rest assured they are solely to illustrate the concept, not provide hard figures – the exact figures are mutable, as are any caps. A cap of 25% or 20% on any particular aspect, reached with a hundred levels of investment in a single stat – this is absolutely fine, the goal is to reward the differentiation of builds and externalise scaling, the actual caps are a matter of balancing.
- Now, you talk about specialising in damage output being the only viable option, and this I disagree would still be the case with this system, because each of the stats has a direct impact on damage – with the arguably exception of strength, which has an indirect impact on damage.
*Strength: Being Stunned zeroes damage output. Stun resist prevents stunning, which therefore keeps damage output stable. < This would be open to change, but sharing a pierce bonus with intellect might be a start, even “which secondary stat goes where” is just an example up for debate.
*Dexterity: Evade lowers damage received, Accuracy increased average damage dealt.
*Endurance: Endurance giving D.P means that it has a direct effect on damage received, Resists mean that DoT and other effects are more likely to fail.
*Intellect: Since D.P has a direct impact on how much damage can be dealt, giving Pierce means more damage dealt.
Each has a maximum efficiency versus someone with no points in an ability, and loses value the higher the opposing enemies stats are, so it will be anywhere in a range between no benefit and full benefit.
Say you boost Intellect by 1/3, and end up ignoring 1% of D.P from a heavily armoured, buffed enemy whose D.P would be 25% from their endurance. This is ~1% more damage. If the enemy buffs up to 75% D.P, and you’ve dropped that from 75% to 74%, now you’re dealing about 4% more damage. Either way, you’re debuffing better, since you’re lowering opposing resists, and unless you have no intellect based skills, you’re getting a little benefit there too.
- I’m not sure, mathematically, why you’d consider an archer with 75% chance to be hit to be significantly better than an Inquisitor with 90% D.P. and thorns.
But regardless, you’re neglecting the other sides:
1: The specialist won’t have the other bonuses.
2: Enemies have secondary stats too, and some of them will have just as much dex, and some will stun your no-strengthy ranger 6% of the time.
3: Not every ability can miss.
- Next is the question whether minor investment is worthwhile.
The first question is against whom? Currently, 1:2 dexterity gives a flat what, 1% bonus? If you stop investing for a few levels, you drop back to literally no impact against anything anywhere.
So first, to make sure we're thinking along the same lines, this alternative system would be in order of effect:
1: Stats give secondary bonuses. These have a (example figures only) 1% bonus every 4 points in a stat. A character who has 400 points in Intellect has 100% Pierce. This can of course vary stat by stat.
2: Calculation: Defender’s Endurance-based D.P – Attacker’s Intellect/Strength Pierce = their base D.P against the Attacker, maximum of ~50% before equipment. Same with Attacker’s Dexterity-based Accuracy – Defender’s Evade, minimum of ~75% before equipment. The caps can vary from stat to stat without issue, and again, Suggested Figures only.
So at this point: Any two targets with equal stats have a net 0% change against one another, since they’ll zero out naturally.
3: Equipment gives bonuses directly to secondary aspects before this calculation, and will grow by level (sometimes very slowly, such as with Evade/Accuracy boosts). For simplicity, higher level weapons will probably give pierce as a natural feature, improving as well. It will continue to be calculated in largely the same way.
Enemies would gain natural bonuses as though it were from equipment.
The net result of this is that most hit chances are between ~75 and 100%, net D.P is between 0 and ~50%, and resists are roughly the same, depending on who's targeting who.
4: After this, buffs are applied in-combat against the result “base”, so a Dex-Rogue with Elusive active will have 45% evade against a target with baseline accuracy, or 20% against anything with the same unbuffed accuracy as his unbuffed evade.
So, with this, would minor investment be worth it? To answer a question with a question – against whom?
If you invest enough points in a stat to develop a 1% bonus over the baseline, then against every such opponent you will continue to have a 1% bonus over them. Put in 25%’s worth, and you’ll have the same 25% boost – but only against non-specialists. What about the person who invests enough points to get a 1% bonus against the person who invested enough points to get a 1% bonus over the baseline?
So a minor amount of investment would be worthwhile – against a target who invested less, and against a target who hasn’t invested significantly more, because the target who tried for a 25% advantage over baseliners would only have a 24% advantage over you, but the target who tried for 25% over everybody would still have 25% over you.
After this, it depends on how enemies were handled. If every enemy had a random pool of levelled stats, then every encounter would be different, and any potential bonus would be uncertain, but the larger your minor investment was overall, the more potential targets it would apply against.
Now, concerning your points:
1) +3/level is new in Chronicles, suggesting that this would be a restriction in a future system of scaling advances is not really valid.
2 & 3) Why diversify rather than specialise? That’s a good question – specialisation will still carry with it inherent rewards, and many people will still specialise (specialisation is not bad). However not specialising will contain its own advantages, which mean that at least it isn’t automatically a worse choice, since you will still get benefits of different kinds the other way, and as discussed above, you can still get major benefits from minor investments, just against smaller percentages of the population.
Why not maximise a bonus against every single possible target? Well, you could maximise a bonus against 2/3 of all possible targets, and maximise another bonus against 1/3 of possible targets. It might not make Strength that much more worthwhile to an archer, but the only class that doesn’t get a boosted ability from another stat is the Mage. Rogues: Str/Dex/Int. Warriors: Str/End/Int. Rangers: Dex/Int. Clerics: Str/Int.
Firstly, none of those “direct” impacts on damage are direct at all. A direct impact on damage is something that increases my damage by a number. When I put 3 more points in int, my mage’s weapon damage goes up by 2 or 3 points. His maximum damage from electrocute goes up by 5 or 6 points. THAT is direct. All those things are dependent on battle factors and the vast majority of them are completely irrelevant to my ability to deal damage. I couldn’t care less about whether or not I stun someone in most battles. Stun is deadly but requires crucial timing, and is neither reliable nor inherently damaging – ie being stunned does not inflict additional damage to a unit. In other words, inflicting stun does not change the numbers. It is NOT a direct impact on my damage output. Certainly it hampers that unit’s damage potential but that is in no way a direct increase to my damage output.
Anyway, if you boost an enemy unit’s evasion, what am I going to do? I “could” invest in dex – but how are you going to make it scale fairly? If the dex investment I make is strong enough to let a slower character have a reasonable hit rate against this high-evasion opponent (and reasonable is 85% or higher in my book. stone edge is not a reasonable hit rate), then what happened to my ranger? His dex is in the 700s and nothing is ever going to hit him because he’s been investing in pure dex for the past 60 levels. On the other hand, if a small investment only has minimal effect, then remind me why I’m wasting my points in the first place. In order to get enough investment in dex to overcome this high-evasion enemy, I have to let the affected character’s damage output lag behind everyone else’s because he’s not boosting the stat that actually affects his damage. Either way, you can’t keep both the two characters balanced – either the pure dex character becomes overpowered if you let the dex have an impact on a non-dex character, or the pure dex character remains the same but the non-dex character continues to ignore dex because it has no useful effect on him. If I was hybridizing a character from the very beginning (let’s suppose this slow character was hybrid strength with a bit of dex), his damage output would still be inferior and it’s still not worth the investment.
Basically my argument remains unchanged and I don’t see how you’ve rebutted it. There is no scaling factor that both lets a hybrid character gain noticeable benefits from his hybridization AND lets a pure character benefit more than the hybrid while not being overpowered. You can choose which one happens but you cannot avoid them both unless stats have diminishing returns. You suggest that you can still get “major benefits from minor investments” but I don’t see where the major part comes in. If I choose to invest 1 of every 3 levels on my warrior in dex instead of strength, will his accuracy be 5% higher? If not then I don’t see the point. 5% is a miniscule bonus against enemies with natural evasion and so it looks perfectly reasonable to give that bonus to my warrior, no? But then if you look at my ranger, investing 3/3 levels on dex, what’s his accuracy bonus looking like? It’s going to be up at around 15% which is too much to remain balanced. The guy’s always going to have solid hit rates even against enemies with strong evasion, and he’s going to be getting extra damage while he’s at it (at least Marksman stance requires that I take a speed penalty).
I can apply the same logic to my other units as well, except it’s even more severe. If you want my confessor to invest in strength, he’d better be getting a useful +stun% from it, because his main attack is smite anyway. I’d expect at least 20%, because frankly a 5% chance to stun is as good as none at all (ie I can’t use it to improve my battle tactics because it’s not consistent enough, so it makes no difference to the way I play). But whoa whoa whoa! If he’s getting +20% to stun from a strength investment every second or third level, what’s my warrior getting? He’s going pure strength and so his stun% is going to be right up against the cap no matter what you set it at. And if you set the cap at something unremarkable like 30%, then I have to invest hardly any strength at all to hit it (if I can get 20% from investing half or a third of my levels in strength, then 30% is not very far away – sending 2 fifths of my levels to strength or something) and at that point the stat becomes broken because now everybody gets 30% to stun without severely impacting any of their other stats.
Let’s try it with the numbers you proposed, +1% from baseline for every 4 points. My ranger is level 94 with 649 dex which gives him baseline acc of 95 + 649/4 = 257% hit rate. For an enemy to push him back down to the baseline, that enemy also needs 648 dex.
I am contemplating investing some of my inquisitor’s points into dexterity because I’m sick of the 95% hit rate, which has a 5% miss chance. I’d much rather have 100%, wouldn’t you? 5% extra to hit requires that I have a 20 point lead on whatever I am trying to hit. My ranger has a stat total of 1166 and the inquis has 1091, so let’s approximate that at this level, the stats you have access to sum up to 1100. Let’s also look at my mage for some baselines: the mage has 152 end, and his health SUCKS at this level (it’s like 500; he can get ohko’d by unlucky black holes or void cannons. it’s happened to me in survival mode and I just quit on the spot because my mage got disintegrated). Because my inquis is a frontline unit, I will make these basic demands: he needs at least 300 end just to survive damage, and he needs at least 300 strength to do respectable damage (his str is currently around 360 btw so this is not far off). That leaves him with 500 points to allocate freely. About 100 of them are going to end up in intellect whether I like it or not (my mage has 94 str and 94 dex – 1 point per level regardless of whether he upgrades it) leaving the man with 400 dex overall if I allocated ALL his residual points to dex. However, this is unrealistic for me because that puts his stat spread at 300-300-100-400. Dex is NOT supposed to be the inquis’s main stat and I don’t agree with it being the main stat. Let’s instead have a spread of 400-350-100-250. This is a bit closer to what I’d actually be willing to invest in dex for a unit where dex is not a primary stat. (ie it has no effect on the numeric output of any of his key skills) It looks like he’s gaining about 7 points per level since this total counts his equipment (we have a base of 1 point per level that cannot be avoided, so we have an extra ~700 points above this to be allocated across ~100 levels). ~43% go to strength, 36% to end, and remaining 21% to dex. About 1 in every 5 levels is dex – sounds about right if I’m generally dividing the inquis between end and strength. Now if we compare him to the superdex enemy that can match even my ranger, he actually has 95 – (648-250)/4 = -5% chance of hitting. He will NEVER hit. Not really surprising though because this enemy’s gone all out on dex and such an enemy has earned the right to dodge all his inferiors, no? But if we look at a perfectly average enemy (1100 stat total divided by four stats gives a dex of 275), the inquis is still at a disadvantage, leaving him at about 89% hit. Not very satisfying at all! And there’s no way around that. he’s investing less than the average enemy – 1 out of every 5 levels in dex, compared to the average who invests 1 out of 4.
Perhaps we’re being unfair to my poor poor inquis. He does have all that strength and end right? That counts for something. Against our average enemy (we’ll suppose strength gives that enemy stun evasion), he has just over 30% chance to stun. Quite high. Sounds pretty fair, right? He takes -5% acc against the average enemy, but also gets 30% to stun against that same enemy. 90% acc with 30% to stun is actually pretty damn good (and since this is a cleric, he also has judgment 8D). I’d take that for sure. So far we’re looking pretty balanced from the standpoint of our hybridized character. This is exactly what I would want to see from a system that promotes hybridization. I do gain something worthwhile from investing in dex – I can maintain a reasonable hit rate against the “average enemy” – and yet my main stat also has some cool, nifty side effects that kick in on a reasonably regular basis.
All is not rosy though. Remember my ranger’s 649 dex? Well that’s also giving him evasion. Against our perfectly average enemy, my ranger has ~93.5% evasion. Basically that average enemy cannot even hit my ranger, ever. And an enemy like my inquis? Well sadly he has even LESS dex than the average enemy, so he’s even worse off. Against an average foe, my ranger is literally impossible to hit. His armor doesn’t matter at all because nobody can hit him. Stun%? Doesn’t matter, you can’t hit me. And if you happen to have 648 dex like me, you’d better hope you’re dealing damage based on dex as well, because otherwise I’ll outdamage you and kill you easily with a human intelligence at the wheel. Or I could just run 2 rogues and support my ranger by flashpowdering everyone with high dex so that even they can’t hit the guy. I could throw him in the front row and watch as all the pitiful front row guys (which, let me remind you, will be in the same boat as my inquis – end and str are first priority so their dex will suck) struggle to hit him and fail. Perhaps the mages will score a hit here and there if they have any perfect hit moves, but oh right his equipment gave him 100 HP regen (out of 650 btw) so he’s basically never going to die unless you one-shot him. Though my inquis is quite balanced, this ranger is completely and utterly overpowered, against both average enemies and semi-specialized ones.
Therein lies the problem with any attempt to adjust secondary benefits of stats: if I’m going to invest in a stat for its secondary benefits alone, those benefits better be pretty good. My expectations will always be unreasonably high, because if I’m not getting damage, it’s gotta be good! Yes, I do demand +10% accuracy if I’m going to invest in dex. Yes, I do expect that a side investment in stun% is worth 15-25%. And while these expectations are all fair for a hybrid unit, they become completely unfair for any pure unit, and they will get there fast. But if you fail to meet those expectations, the long-term benefit of hybridization just isn’t enough. The novelty of a mage being able to inflict stun on hit is not very worthwhile when his stun inflict chance is only 1% (and it won’t even be that against most enemies because the average enemy will have more strength than him).
1: You seem to be hung up on stun still. I’ll remind you that pierce has a very direct impact on damage, because armour reduces damage. Accuracy has a pretty direct impact on damage, because if you miss, you do less. Intellect/Strength offering pierce would be the most “direct” possible way of boosting damage without actually boosting the damage-dependent stat. If you put 1% of Pierce worth of points in Intellect and you deal 500 damage, then you get +5 damage. 5% worth of pierce in both Strength and Intellect? You’ve boosted damage by 50.
Just thought of it: To better differentiate Strength and Intellect:
Strength: Crit Damage%. Pierce%. +self/-enemy Stun Resist/Recovery%
Intellect: -Resist%, Crit%.
Dexterity: Evade%, Accuracy %.
Endurance: +non-stun Resist, +D.P., -Crit Bonus Damage%, -Crit%.
This is coupled with other tertiary features, such as Health/Energy recovery. Strong characters deal more damage on a critical hit, and penetrate armour better.
Endurance gets a lot of benefits, but they do not boost damage or many skills (the most important, yet unspoken, stat bonuses). Remove stun% itself, which as you’ve said is a wild-card, and leave it on weapons and skills. Again, these are still examples, and open to change, but they’re better examples.
2: If you boost an enemies evasion (say, a ghoul), then it will have at most 25 evasion plus its enemy-type boost (15% or so), giving, at worst, a 65% chance to hit, if you have no points in dex at all. I seem to recall in my early days of playing, those cultist infiltrators had a 55% chance to be hit for a lot of my characters.
What will happen to Reg Ranger? If we assume 700 Dex = 175 bonus accuracy (270 total), and 175 Evasion. He’s roughly level 180 with maxed dex and no gear boosting dex, evade or accuracy – bringing in equipment boosts (and monster-type boosts of certain stats) will result in roughly the same outcome at a lower level.
A few rough numbers:
0 investment = 180 Dex. < Example guy: Cas Captain. 45 bonus from dex.
1/4 investment ~315 Dex. < Example guy: Will Warden. 78 bonus from dex.
1/2 investment ~450 Dex. < Example guy: Tom Thief. 112 bonus from dex.
3/4 investment ~585 Dex. < Example guy: Al Assassin. 146 bonus from dex.
So a level 180 ghoul, for simplicity, would have the same divides.
0 Dexterity: Ghoul’s statistical evade is 45 + 15. Reg is at 100% chance to hit, has a 75% chance to be hit. Cas: 80% chance to hit, 95% chance to be hit. Will and up: 100 chance to hit. 75% chance to be hit.
1/4 Dexterity: Ghoul’s S.Evd is 78 + 15. Reg still has a 100% chance to hit, has a 75% chance to be hit. Cas: 75% chance to hit. Will: 80% chance to hit, 95% chance to be hit. Tom and up: 100% chance to hit, 75% chance to evade.
1/2 Dexterity: Ghoul’s S.Evd is 127. Reg has a 100% chance to hit, 75% chance tbh. Cas: Still 75%/100% to be hit. Will is down to 75% chance to hit, 100% tbh. Tom: 80% to hit, 95% tbh. Al: 100%/75%.
3/4 Dexterity: Ghoul’s S.Evd is 161. Everyone except Al and Reg has 75%/100% chances. Al is at 80%/95%. Reg is *still* at 100%/75%.
Full Dexterity: Ghoul’s S.Evd is 185, and Reg is down to 80%/95% against it. Every other character is at 75%/100%.
So what’s the point of going 3/4 dexterity? You’ll have 100% accuracy against 60% of the enemies in the game, and evade 60% of the enemies in the game. Be on equal footing with 20% of them. And at a disadvantage against 20% of them. If you put everything into dexterity, then you will have the edge over every opponent in the game except those that also invested in dexterity. Against any opponent that doesn’t have evasion boosts, you’ll note that they’d be at 95%/95% against equal targets.
The more you invest, the larger the amount of the population that you have a reasonable advantage over. You aren’t getting a flat 5% to hit if you put 1/3 of your points into Dexterity, you’re getting a major advantage against 0, 1/4, and on even footing against 1/3. You’re at an increasing disadvantage against 1/2, 2/3, 3/4 and full, capping at an “unreasonable” 75% chance to hit (I can tell you aren’t a D&D player if that high a chance is a problem).
For keeping bosses at their traditional 130% accuracy, by the by, the best way would be to have them have their own Fighting Style, giving them stat bonuses to increase them beyond what their stats (and associated caps) would indicate.
So diminishing returns? Yes, specialisation does indeed have diminishing returns – the difference between 3/4 and Full is only 20% of potential enemies. But you have specialised, one assumes, with the goal in mind of getting an advantage over 80% of enemies and a disadvantage against none of them, whilst boosting your primary damage stat as much as possible. What has the character earned by investing in their primary stat? They’ve earned the right to maintain an advantage over all comers, caps still apply. If a low 75% chance is bothersome…. Well, every single class except the Assassin and the Captain have ways of upping their accuracy.
You might *overall* be better off with your Ranger if you were to go 3/4 Dex, 1/4 Int, for better healing, chance of inflicting your poison, and piercing 12.5% of the target’s armour (25% total with Strength + Intellect), which would work out pretty well against ~40% of the enemies you face, whilst the 3/4 Dex would work against ~80% of the enemies you face. But you’ll be better at evade/accuracy if you focus on Dexterity alone, and you’ll deal better raw damage if your damage method is Dex-based.
3: Why are you wasting your points on diminishing returns?
a) Increasing your primary damage stat is not a waste.
b) One assumes that if you’ve chosen to waste your points specialising in getting a secondary, then it’s because you wanted that secondary bonus and were prepared to make the trade off.
4: How to keep Dexterity balanced with non-Dex and yet still have tangible bonuses?
I’d already done this in my last post, but hopefully it’s clearer with the demonstration in point 2. A 75% chance to be hit plus a 100% chance to hit versus a 75% chance to hit and a 100% chance to be hit are very potent advantages. If you ignore Dexterity entirely, you’re forsaking *up to* a quarter of your damage output, and taking a third more damage because you’re not dodging and the dex specialist is. If you want to throw out some suggested numbers, I’ll be happy to crunch the numbers and demonstrate how scaling continues to work.
In return, you’re piercing 25% of their armour, dealing debuffs more reliably, taking a quarter less damage from every hit, or quarter of your hits (slightly fewer than one in five hits) will stun the opponent. Plus you could just do the clever thing and use skills to cover your weakness – Boost your accuracy, use unevadable attacks, and debuff your opponent.
If you’re, as per your example, going 2 Str: 1 Dex, you’ll have a decent stun chance against ~60% of enemies, you’ll deal more than 2/3 the damage of a full strength character (most damage comes from weapon, not stats), whilst hitting more reliably against ~50% of the enemies you’ll come across. The “major” part of the benefit comes from your advantages over reasonably large proportions of the enemies you face, whilst being capped doesn’t diminish the fact that the specialist keeps that major benefit against a *larger* proportion of enemies.
If your confessor invests in pure intellect then he’s actually getting a bigger benefit than he would at present, because intellect will let his melee attacks deal more damage thanks to getting some use out of his intellect.
If the Confessor invests in Strength, then their melee attacks will deal more damage, they’ll have a higher “crit damage%”, and they’ll pierce armour better. Potentially a viable build right there, but it’s still not mandatory.
Sidenote: Even when Strength is Stun%, it’s still not a 30% stun chance – you’ve missed the key factor that it’s not *your stats* that determine these percentages, it’s *your stats – your enemy’s stats*. Maxing strength maintains the maximum advantage against the maximum number of targets – this is the arms race externalised.
So in review:
If you invest in a stat, you will get a benefit up to the cap. If you have a problem with the amount in the cap, that’s a question of balance tweaks, not core mechanics, and should be approached as such.
The higher the amount invested, a) The higher the maximum benefit (this doesn’t have to be 4:1, it could be 20:1, but you get the picture). b) The larger the percentage of enemies will give a benefit.
Stats will have a lesser impact than Equipment will have a lesser impact than in-combat buffing/debuffing.
A few archetypes would be:
1:1 Strength/Dexterity Assassin: All stats go to damage, high piercing, high accuracy, high evade, lot of damage when he critical hits (with lethality boosting it even higher). With 50/50 he has the advantage of one type or another against ~50% of all potential enemies.
1:1 Strength/Intellect Warrior: Half stats go to damage, half to boosting healing skills (since the rogue is the only pure damage class beyond the mage, this is fine by my reckoning). High pierce, high crit, and hard hitting when he does crit, compounded by the boost to piercing. With 50/50 he has the advantage of one type or another against ~50% of all potential enemies.
1:2 Strength/Intellect Mage: 2/3 stats go to damage, the other third goes to boosting pierce and increasing crit damage. High crits, harder hitting crits, and since the Mage has so many attacks without an attack roll, any hard to hit enemies will still eat some fireballs.
1:2 Dexterity/Intellect Warden: 1/3 of stats goes to direct damage and accuracy, the remaining 2/3 goes to improving Poison and making it more likely that the poison will stick. Against 60% of targets, he may need to use Marksman, but with the extra crit rate and efficacy of healing and poisons, Warden should still be going awesome.
Full endurance Warrior: With heavy enough armour, he’s at 50% DP even against full strength enemies. He’ll take regular crits, for regular damage, and against everything except Stun, he’s got a 25% chance of resisting it from everyone except intellect specialists.
The “monsters don’t level up during campaign” or whatever it is called doesn’t seem to work. Or I misunderstood what it was supposed to do. Anyway, I started campaign with level 1 characters and level 1 monsters. But monsters on level 2 are still level 2, I was under the impression they would be level 1 still.
You understood correctly, it must be bugged. How annoying.. I’ll fix it when I can. Sorry.
Hey Garin, I’ve noticed that the Spark of Legend improves defence/weapon damage quite a bit, however I’m bit sad the stats dont get any better so for example rings with no defence stat dont get any kind of bonuses from having Spark of Legend. Is this working as intended and if not will you ever correct this in future patches? Oh and one more thing, it seems that damage reduction doesnt go beyond 48% (64% with shield) is this a bug or did you put a cap of damage reduction you obtain from gear?
damage protection scaling factor goes down as level goes up. In other words, 1000 armor rating at level 1 is probably worth 50% damage prot or more, but at level 80 that same armor rating is probably worth around 5% or less. With each level you gain, a point of armor rating is worth less and less damage protection, forcing you to get better armor to maintain your current damage prot. So are you sure you’re actually hitting a cap? Getting above maybe 45% is EXTREMELY difficult to do with gear alone. Not because the gear is capped, but because it’s tough to find that much gear that has that much armor. The fact that you were able to hit 48% without a shield is pretty incredible in and of itself imo (I’m at 45% WITH shield at level 80). With buffs you can easily hit 90% damage prot or higher (I’ve seen it happen on my inquis after his fortify and bolster defenses triggered simultaneously), but gear alone… that’s pretty challenging.
I see, thanks for explaining that to me. I guess its working as intended then, still wish SoL increased stats on items, because currently theres really no difference between epic items and epic items slotted with SoL bar armor/weapon damage of course, this includes (HP/Power regeneration, STR, INT, END, DEX, Retaliation damage, Healing skills bonus, Bonus when healed, thats about it off the top of my head.
The cap for damage prevention is 90%. This is actually pretty easy to get with the right gear, although not passively. At the moment, my warrior is at 62% passive damage prevention. He has a Bolstering piece which gives an extra 15%, putting it at 77%. Finally, he typically spams Shield Wall, granting an extra 25%, or 102%. But, it only rounds to 90%. Also 102% reduction would be pretty silly and impossible.
What I’d like to know is if anyone has found a cap on Quickness or maximum power. If there isn’t, a character that’s chugged a Quickness potion a level with all Socketed gear and +Quickness shards might be extremely brutal without a cap.
I am pretty sure i’ve hit over 90 with inquis fortify+bolster+49 base, but I cannot be certain so I can’t refute the claims of a hard cap at 90.
And no I have not yet found a cap on quickness. With channeling on, my mage gets up to around 55Q? He’s hella fast at that speed already so frankly I don’t feel like boosting it up even further; in other words I have yet to try it. As for maximum power, that’s another one that sounds really difficult to test because so little gear gives significant amounts of +power. Right now I’m at around 135 (+8 regen) on my mage.
If it possible to break the 90% cap, the only way I can see it being possible is if two effects trigger simultaneously to boost it, yet neither would tip it over 90% by itself. Even then, I would think it’s a glitch. I built my own warrior up to have lots of damage prevention (I was hoping for 99% like in MD:BoD) and although he should be breaking 90%, he never has.
Well, as far as power goes, the Moonglow set, by itself, gives +50 max power. The problem is the only way to do a max power test is via tonics. I’m planning on doing this with a Warrior from the premium content, but I’m having far too much fun with my current team to try it out.
Quickness I plan on testing myself via Socketed items and either of the two +Quickness shards. With the lightest armor, so no -Quickness on the pieces, and 31 socket slots, a possible +62 quickness is possible. If the suffix on each piece gave +Quickness, too, that’s an extra +20, or a total +84 Quickness (an extra +2 for a dagger, as they all have +2 Quickness, I think). Base speed seems to be 45, so we’d be looking at a possible Quickness of 129. A single character focused on speed, with speed that high, might be able to chip away at opponents so fast, they could never strike back. This isn’t even factoring the +Quickness tonics.
well I just checked. base 49 + fortify (30) + bolster (15) left me at 90% (calculated total is 94%, for the lazy ones like myself). a 90% cap does indeed exist (I have no argument with this)
There’s no cap on quickness or power. Quickness has pseudo diminishing returns, in the sense that if I get 3 turns before the enemy gets one, more quickness is less useful than it was before. I stop buying tonics when it gets to 150 on anyone.
Same for power, although I keep pumping it up via tonics in case I ever want to go for a long run on Act IV
Sorry for double posting but it would be lovely if you made Health/mana/buff potions stackable as well as scrolls. Cheers.
The game is definitely awesome but it has a huge problem that it lacks replayability. Sure, playing it through on extreme from scratch is hard, but it doesn’t take long at all.
There is a lot of customizability of items but what’s the point? Getting to wave X on extreme is even meaningless, because you can get unlimited power by resetting your level to 1 while retaining unlimited tier items (with spirit guide).
The game is nearly complete, it has the framework, and a bunch of cool items, it just has nothing to do with them. Add a few challenging bosses that you can only beat by being creative and strategic, maybe only beatable by a certain party setup which you’d have to figure out. Also spirit guides break any challenge, and should be removed.
I agree with you about replayability. Theres one thing I miss the most from MD:BoD its all the little things there were for end game content, all those legendary bosses and whatnot, in Chronicles theres really no point to keep playing once you get your desired set slotted with SoL, so replayability in that department is rather lacking.
huh never occurred to me to abuse spirit guides in that way… that is pretty cool actually.
Anyway while I do agree that some endgame bosses would be cool, I think in the long run I’d rather see the development move on. For better or for worse, chronicles is a complete game. It has a few remaining glitches here and there (none that I’ve personally experienced; I have heard there are outliers) but overall the whole thing works. Certainly there’s more room to expand the game, but does it really need it? While I would be glad to have more content, I don’t think the game is so small that it demands more. At this point I feel like I’d be more interested in garin’s progress on godfall (we must remember that chronicles was meant to be an interim game because godfall was too big and couldn’t release soon enough to keep garin’s cash flow up) than on continuing the growth of chronicles.
As for replay value… maybe it’s just me, but MD series is the only game I know of that does its particular style of gameplay well with the pre-battle positioning and the turn based combat and such and such. Just never gets old for me, so I can keep enjoying the game ad infinitum really lol
There should be something for Waves on Extreme. Currently I’m doing Beginner, trying to farm SoLs, as there seems to be no difference in rewards from Beginner or Extreme. Might as well do the play-through were enemies one-shot themselves off my thorns, right?
I also agree about more bosses, and some legendary drops to go with them. To me, that was the biggest let down of the game: the two highest rarity items have only two items, total, set to them. I loved hunting all the Purples and Oranges from MD:BoD, but it’s just not here in this game. With the top two rarities wasted and Purples being easy to find out of restocking the shop with a low-level character, the only hunt is to get SoLs on everything, which is pretty repetitive.
Hey Garin, I have a question for you.
I recently bought premium content on AG
But I also have a Kongregate account, I’m assuming that you will in the future put Chronicles on Kong. If so, do you have any ideas as to the cost for the premium content on kong? (ie 10 kreds 15 kreds?)
How about hotkeys for inventory/character management to cut down on maintenance time?
Something like: press and hold (0-9) + click to either apply an enhancement to the item in that slot or equip an item to a slot.. if only one of those is an option, being able to hotkey applying an enhancement is the more useful.
And something similar for having a character drink a potion/tonic.
And I dearly miss being able to allocate multiple level-ups worth of stat points by shift + click
Not sure if it’s a bug, or just something to be extraordinarily disappointed in; I used a spark of legend on what I thought could use the most improvement, rather than what was already a good item. My level 11 warrior is now walking around with a legendary tier one Battle Standard of Readiness.
Not a single stat got increased. I’m so embarrassed. Working as intended..?
Yea, unfortunately. Sparks don’t do anything to stats that don’t increase as the item’s tier increases.
You can use the disenchant bottle on the standard to get your spark back.
Actually sparks dont do anything to stats, even the ones that do increase with tiers, hence why I want garin to change it and make sparks useful.
Items’ stats that scale with increasing item tier scale up automatically with a spark attached.
What BoD legendaries had that made them better than purples is more defense, weapon damage, or effects/combinations of effects not available on other items. Aside from the 3rd one, Sparks of Legend mimic that pretty well now.
The tradeoff for not getting additional effects is having an item that replaces itself with a newer version every level.
Yeah, basically all spark of legend does is save you the gold you’d buy apex forges with.
Its not like its hard to get all achievements or 2k in game.. Oh well.
Ok, so.. i`m have a huge problem.
i don`t normally log onto armor games to play mdc. but i always save at option screen when im done. Today i decided to log onto armor games and started to play. It took me to a very very old save. I feel like i`ve been rolled back. I`m thinking this is because i logged on armor games and it used a save from the last time i logged onto it. Is there a way to load my actual last save that i did from the options screen?
anyone have any knowledge about it? I had all achievements unlocked and some mouth watering gear. I would really hate to lose them. And i don’t really feel like playing until i know i that there’s absolutely nothing i can do.
If you log in and you have an existing cloud save, it will be downloaded and replace the current local save. However, if the local save is more advanced (characters have more total exp) you get an option to replace the cloud save with your current local save instead.
I’m not sure I understand what happened in your case.
Before I sink 20 or so hours into this game will you have any “extra” content for godfall based on save data here? If so does it matter if I put the hours in on Armor vs somewhere else where you may host it?
No, there will be no carry-over into Godfall.
It appears that “of agility” and “of reflexes” items do not operate in tandem (I wouldn’t call it “stacking” because they have different effects.”
Is this intentional?
Okay, so I bought the Premium version and got my 5 Sparks of Legend alright. Then I went and screwed up one of my characters pretty massively, and erased my character data. I used my Sparks before then, but forgot to unequip the items on the characters. Now my Sparks are gone… Was this supposed to happen?
I assumed that I would get the Sparks back, since I paid money for them, but…
Interesting. Wonder if this happens to everyone who erases their save data. If so, maybe it should be changed so that any resetting or restarting gives you the sparks you paid for back.
This is a good idea, and will be in the new version.
Completed everything there is to complete, is there going to be more content anytime soon?
Not sure. The next content drop could be the next game for all we know. I hope that’s sooner than later. If not extra classes, at least another campaign.
It’s been 45 days I believe. Will we be seeing a Kongregate release soon?
Yeah, as soon as I can iron out some issues.
Mystique theme by digitalnature | Powered by WordPress | [link rss]